Rhino 33
May 25, 2007
8:31 AM | | ;
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I truly hate the approach that many teams take in fielding a kickoff return where the reciever catches the ball, runs to the 19 yrd line and stops.
I know it buys you "3 free plays" on your offensive series before you have to get the 1 yard and a new set of downs.. but it is so difficult to pull a flag when the players are running head on at one another, even for the good teams. I say force the issue and run it up the middle fast. After all, the chances of busting one on the return have to be about the same as busting one in one of those next "3 free plays", especially if you factor in the chance of a turnover, sack, or bad snap.
Post away...
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Agreed
May 25, 2007
8:36 AM | | | ; |
However, this can be a bonus if you are trying to control the clock in certain situations.
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Rhino 33
May 25, 2007
8:44 AM | | | ; |
Good call... see, even an old vet like myself forgot the clock management aspect of it.
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Depnds on other factors also
May 25, 2007
8:45 AM | | | ; |
1. Good kickoff near the goal line (then you are hoping to get near the 20)
2. Team you are playing against (good teams will make the pull at the 21)
3. Do you think you can get near he 30 yd line? I like 1st and 10 from the 30 just as well as 1st and 1 from the 19 for the reasons you mention.
4. Score, time and situation of the game
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Rhino 33
May 25, 2007
8:55 AM | | | ; |
Got to respectfully rebutt:
1) If you caught the kickoff near the goal line.. maybe you should have let go in the endzone
2) If a team is so good to pull it at the 21 instead of the 19, then that is one disciplined team! but it doesn`t make the act of actually pulling the flag any easier weather it`s the 19 or 21, if the receiver is head on top speed.
3 and 4) I agree.. and I think you should be looking to get a good shot at the 30 every time you recieve (in our league).
So what else is a dumb (but popular) play?
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Bob Saget
May 25, 2007
9:08 AM | | | ; |
I think it is a good move if you are hemmed in near the sidelines with little chance of beating 2-3 guys. But if you are in the middle of the field, the chance of making one guy miss and finding a pitch/throwback dramatically increase.
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Rhinos92Locsregistered
May 25, 2007
9:12 AM | | | ; |
I hate when you catch an interception and you`re about three yards away from scoring with no one from the other team in sight and someone from your team asks you to pitch the ball back to them!!!!!!!!
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hahah
May 25, 2007
9:18 AM | | | ; |
Has someone really done that?
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If so...
May 25, 2007
9:18 AM | | | ; |
Please tell me you didnt pitch it back.
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How bout...
May 25, 2007
9:26 AM | | | ; |
Or what about somebody taking it into the endzone thinking they were alone and showboating...ooops loose ball defense got the ball. NO TD and now you look stupid! True story.
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Seen it
May 25, 2007
9:58 AM | | | ; |
Seen it happen this season guy got to ****ing running to the endzone and drops the ball and rolls out of bounds in endzone. Automatic touchback and defense got ball.
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Rhinos92Locsregistered
May 25, 2007
10:31 AM | | | ; |
Hell no, he didn`t get the pitch. The guy yelling for the ball had already scored that game. Sh8t, my contract is incentive laden just like his. LOL!
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Dumb AZZ
May 25, 2007
11:06 AM | | | ; |
Good play dumb azz post. How do you guys win with this kind of thinking.
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Rhino 33
May 25, 2007
12:12 PM | | | ; |
Whoever this a$$hole is...
probably had a better endzone dance than you!
And I think that guy that scored, scored after your TD play, so he didn`t have a TD.... yet. That`s what I heard anyways...
Maybe you should think more about the team! You share that ball like you share that little Rhino avatar of yours!
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vet
May 25, 2007
12:50 PM | | | ; |
I love the guys that jump offsides on purpose when you only have 4 yards to go for the first.
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clarification
May 25, 2007
1:10 PM | | | ; |
so offense takes a knee on the 19, it`s 1st and short.
defense jumps offsides on purpose
Can we decline the offsides? If so, what happens if the defense jumps offside again?
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Help
May 25, 2007
1:41 PM | | | ; |
You can decline and if they go offside again they get a 15 yrd added to play.
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free advice
May 25, 2007
6:59 PM | | | ; |
If time matters, the biggest waste of time is after a touchdown/PAT. The clock runs until after the kickoff, and typically wastes a couple of minutes.
Food for thought my young grasshoppers.
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lazy sundae
May 27, 2007
11:32 AM | | | ; |
what, you are allowed to do that? there are lines marking every 20? (i`m talking to you deon, sef, spiderman, bake, et al)
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Sef 81
May 27, 2007
6:58 PM | | | ; |
Do as i say, not as i do.
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Offsides
May 29, 2007
10:38 AM | | | ; |
I agree, the going offsides on purpose when it is 1st down and less than 5 yards to go should be outlawed. It has started happening quite a bit this season and is just a scummy thing to do in my opinion. Can`t argue with the strategy, but why not just try to just play the game and stop the team instead of cheating to give yourself an advantage?
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onsides
May 29, 2007
12:24 PM | | | ; |
"...instead of cheating to give yourself an advantage?"
is no more cheating than stopping at the 19 yd line...
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Novas Vet
May 29, 2007
1:07 PM | | | ; |
I`m actually shocked that there hasn`t been more people on this thread defending this as one of the smartest plays in FF. I almost hesitate to post this, because it is such a smart play that I don`t want other teams to start employing it on a regular basis. I`m very surprised that a guy on a veteran team like Rhinos would denigrate it, let alone call it the dumbest play in FF.
On offense, we insist that our guys go out at the 19 on deep kickoffs. The general rule of thumb (like "Depends" eluded to) is that if you can get to the 30 (and you better be damn sure you can get to the 30) go for it, otherwise stop at the 19.
Having a first and 1 puts the offense in a highly advantageous position and affords the opportunity to really manage the clock. In flag football where games are only 1 hour long, clock management is an absolute must. The first and 1 strategy would have merits if that were the only benefit, but in fact there are multiple other benefits including:
1) Opportunity to "hit `em deep" without putting yourself in a second and long hole.
2) Opportunity to put together a long and sustained drive thereby tiring out and testing the opponent`s defense, honing your offense, and establishing momentum.
3) Controlling the play calls to ensure short first down yardage on all plays therefore keeping the offense unpredictable and allowing the offense to use the entire playbook (i.e., both short, long and trick plays) rather than forcing yourself into predictable long down situations.
On the flip side, our defense loves it when some hotdog who thinks he`s Dante Hall tries to take the kickoff to the house. We invariably will pull his flag between the 20 and the 25 and he has just put his team at a serious disadvantage for the opposite of all the reasons I list above. Our defense can be far more aggressive when a team has to go 19 yards for a first. One sack or one offensive penalty and you`ve pretty much assured that the opponent will be turning the ball over to you on downs (if not on a turnover first).
FF veterans will recall that in the old days kickoffs that sailed out of bounds would be placed on the 40 putting the offense in a first and 20 situation. So many teams resorted to simply kicking the ball out of bounds that the league changed the rule to give the returning team the ball on the 35 (and a much more desirable first and 5 situation) which put an end to the "kick it out of bounds" strategy.
I`m sure my team is going to get on me for giving away FF tips, but the fact is that the 19-yard line strategy is so basic, I don`t feel like I`m giving up some super secret. Besides, there are plenty other strategies that need to be employed for a team to become a perennial winner, but you younger teams out there should take note and stop putting your offense in a hole every time out.
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dumbest post in the FF
May 29, 2007
1:18 PM | | | ; |
from rhino33:
"Got to respectfully rebutt:
1) If you caught the kickoff near the goal line.. maybe you should have let go in the endzone"
why would you let it go in the endzone? your saying you`d rather have it 1st and 20 from the 20 then 1st and 1 from the 19? your joking right?
Novas Vet - ha, if i was on your team i`d be a bit upset you gave that info out. you`d think people would realize a move as simple as this, and take advantage, esp with the lead late in the game.
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vet
May 29, 2007
1:31 PM | | | ; |
one more reason to down it on the 19 is if you muff a snap, jump offsides, get sacked, etc. you arent in nearly the same hole.
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Head Ref
May 29, 2007
3:48 PM | | | ; |
TO NOVAS VET """So many teams resorted to simply kicking the ball out of bounds that the league changed the rule to give the returning team the ball on the 35 (and a much more desirable first and 5 situation) which put an end to the "kick it out of bounds" strategy.""""
The rule was NEVER CHANGED, we go by Rule 6 sec 2 art 2 100 yd field if kicked out bounds between receiving team restraining line and goal ball goes to receiving team`s 40 yard line..PERIOD!!
If that is not happening what field are you playing at?
Thanks
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Novas Vet
May 29, 2007
4:04 PM | | | ; |
We play at Herndon. Maybe I`m getting my leagues confused, but I would like to hear a clarification from Tom. Giving a team the ball at the 40 sounds like a good defensive play, especially if you don`t have a decent kicker. We should consider changing it to the 35 if it isn`t already.
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Maybe
May 29, 2007
4:12 PM | | | ; |
You are getting the 100 vs. 80 yd fields confused. If the ball goes out of bounds on a 100 yd field, getting the ball at the 40 seems like a great deal for the receiving team (short field to work). If the ball goes out on an 80 yd field, I thought by rule it went to the receiving teams 35 yd line.
I have been around a number of years as well and never heard of the rule change you referenced. Then again, I was probably the guy ignoring the opportunity of 1st and 1 from the 19 in order to get 1st and 18 from the 22 yard line.
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vet
May 29, 2007
6:37 PM | | | ; |
If you dont have a good kicker, is kicking it out of bounds really such a bad idea? Is first and 20 at the 40 worse than first and 10 at the thirty? We have never had deep kickoffs, and I have wondered whether we should just kick it out...
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lazy
May 29, 2007
7:27 PM | | | ; |
to each his own. novas down it, we go for it. sef bake and deon have returned enough kicks/punts for td`s that who is anyone to insist they stop short of the yard marker? no one, that`s who. peace
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HEAD REF
May 31, 2007
4:36 PM | | | ; |
TO NOVAS VET
In the state rule state as follows:
Page 28 - Rule 6, Section 1, Art. 3 CHG: “30 yards beyond and adjust both restraining lines on penalty”. In state we kickoff from the 20 yd line and receive at the receivers 30 yd line.
So if the ball does out of bounds between receiving team line(30yd ln) and goal the ball does go back to the 30 yd line.
BUT in the IFFL AND FF we have changed the rule to 100yd field kick from 40 receive on 40
80yd field kick from 20 receive on 40
I hope this helps...
Thanks for your input
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one man`s opinion
May 31, 2007
5:06 PM | | | ; |
I think the dumbest play in flag football would be trying to block a punt
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